Can You Fire Someone to the Glory of God | Missional Marketplace Podcast S1E7

Honoring God in our hiring practices seems way easier than honoring God in our firing practices. If the Gospel redeems all things, how can we both hire and fire people to the glory of God? It begins with seeing people the way God sees them.

On this week’s podcast, we talk about hiring and firing employees. People are more than cogs in a wheel or economic transactions to boost our bottom line. All human beings carry God’s Image (Imago Dei), and yet sometimes working relationships have to end. There will never be a warm and fuzzy way to terminate someone’s employment, but when we truly see people and not just transactions, we can love them well even when we have to say goodbye.

This week’s missional moment features Konica Miles, one of our favorite leaders at our sister company, CRF Affordable Housing. Konica has long-managed our housing portfolio’s largest property, overseeing 424 units of multifamily apartments on Indy’s west side. She is both tenacious and loving, bringing her desire to honor God and love her neighbor with her to work each day. You will absolutely love hearing what Konica has to share. I believe it will inspire you in your place of work, too. You can learn more about CRF Affordable Housing here: https://crf.net

Please share, follow, and rate this show (we prefer all the stars if you don’t mind) on your podcast platform of choice. It goes a long way to help establish us as a new podcast. You can also find more information about Missional Marketplace and The Stone Table here:

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Missional Marketplace Book: https://www.erikcooper.me

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/173…

Transcription:

Speaker 1 [00:00:00] Colossians three, 17, says whatever you do and word or indeed do
everything in the name of the Lord Jesus. Right. Giving thanks right to God, the father
through him. So how do we terminate someone's employment? Right. And do that to the
glory of God. In the name of Jesus. Right. So we want to talk about that this week. And
maybe you're not in leadership. Maybe you've never had to hire someone or fire someone,
maybe. But but I think some of the principles and some of the concepts and some of the
stories we're going to tell today. Mm hmm. Might be able to encourage you just the way
you engage your everyday life is. Absolutely.
Speaker 2 [00:00:48] Episode number seven. Welcome, everybody. We are here for
another Missional Marketplace podcast episode seven.
Speaker 1 [00:00:56] And we're on the downhill side of season one.
Speaker 2 [00:00:59] That's right. That's right. We're going to we're going to start moving
in that direction. But if this is your first time with us, we're glad that you are here. My name
is Darren Cooper, co-host here with My Good Brother. Good brother.
Speaker 1 [00:01:11] Another good friend, good friend, good.
Speaker 2 [00:01:13] Good brother. Mr. Eric Cooper. And we are excited to be here.
Speaker 1 [00:01:17] Four brothers don't shake brothers, Gibbs. Got to go. Yeah, that's
right. That's right.
Speaker 2 [00:01:23] Well, Missional Marketplace podcast all about accelerating the great
commission through the market. That's right. That's why we are having these
conversations. That's why we show up and record our voices, our lovely voices each and
every.
Speaker 1 [00:01:37] Week, which people have already said they like yours better. They
vote for your voice more than they vote for mine.
Speaker 2 [00:01:42] That's why we were here.
Speaker 1 [00:01:44] That's right.
Speaker 2 [00:01:44] Every week here on the Mission Marketplace podcast now. But it is
all about offering hope and encouragement to those in the marketplace that are working
each, each and every day, each and every week, and might be saying, what in the world
does this have to do with my faith? How does this reconcile? I can't always figure it out
because sometimes work is mundane, sometimes work is boring, sometimes work is just
plain hard.
Speaker 1 [00:02:10] Yeah, I would just say if we had a goal here, I mean, one of the
things we would love to do is just I mean, even if it's ten people or 12 people, right? If we
can encourage believers in the marketplace that who you are, the gifts you have, the roles
you have, how God made you as part of his mission and his plan for this world. Yeah, if we
could if we could just encourage a handful of people on that, it would be a success for.

Speaker 2 [00:02:33] Us to give a different perspective, some some way of just looking at
it differently and allowing God to move and work in in that space. Yet we call work each
and every day.
Speaker 1 [00:02:45] Yeah. To, to reframe every aspect of our lives, including our
everyday work through the lens of the gospel and what Jesus has done for it.
Speaker 2 [00:02:53] Yes. Yeah, that's good. And, and if you've taken this journey with us,
we say it pretty much every week we're following in this first season at least, we are
following Eric's book, Missional Marketplace. That's where the name came from. Well,
mind blowing.
Speaker 1 [00:03:10] Mind blown.
Speaker 2 [00:03:11] That's right. But we're following that. We talked the first few episodes
about work in the great story. That's right. In the last week, we kind of switched a little bit
and talked about work and the great commandments, the overflow of our everyday work.
Speaker 1 [00:03:25] Work, yeah. Yeah. So, so how your work initially, how your work fits
into the great story of God, right? But now we're in, in kind of the practical reality, right?
This which is how, how does our work fulfill the great commandment? Jesus said, love the
Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul and all your mind and love your
neighbor as yourself. Well, we believe that our jobs every day, whether you're a brain
surgeon or you sweep floors, that all of it can fulfill the great commandment, right? If we
reframe it through the lens of the gospel, right?
Speaker 2 [00:03:53] And that's, that's what it's all about. So yeah, you said we're in a, in
a little bit of the practicals here. And so last week we talked about greed.
Speaker 1 [00:04:01] Oh, don't, don't Don. Yeah, we need those little sound.
Speaker 2 [00:04:04] I know.
Speaker 1 [00:04:04] I tell you. Yeah. Maybe, maybe buy season two. Yeah. Well I don't.
Speaker 2 [00:04:07] Know. You never know the full amount but it, it'll be awesome. It will
be unexpected, but it's awesome. But yeah we talked about a greed in in you kind of
reshape that a little bit. You said greed is.
Speaker 1 [00:04:21] Greed is not good, right?
Speaker 2 [00:04:22] Well, yes. You say greed is not.
Speaker 1 [00:04:25] Yeah. I thought you were quoting Gordon Gekko. No, I wasn't.
You're not old enough. You're not old enough to remember Gordon Gekko. No, no, no.
Greed is not a business problem, right? It's a worship problems.
Speaker 2 [00:04:35] A worship problem. That's what he.
Speaker 1 [00:04:37] Was referring to. More prepping.

Speaker 2 [00:04:39] You know, I thought I'd eat it up well for you there, but I think I left
the blank. But no. Yeah. Greed is a worship to worship problem.
Speaker 1 [00:04:48] That's right.
Speaker 2 [00:04:48] Yeah. And I love that. And so if you haven't heard that episode, go
ahead and stop right now. Well, I guess you can finish this one if you want, but make sure
you catch. That was was that last that.
Speaker 1 [00:04:59] That was last episode.
Speaker 2 [00:05:00] That was the last episode.
Speaker 1 [00:05:02] Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2 [00:05:02] So episode six, you can catch that. Talking about greed is a worship
problem, but this week we're heading into another practical and it's one that's fun to talk
about kind of hiring and firing.
Speaker 1 [00:05:15] Oh, I don't know. My blood pressure just went up.
Speaker 2 [00:05:17] Oh, man. How do you do that if you're in a point of leadership?
Yeah. How do you hire somebody to the glory of God? How do you fire somebody and still
keep that in in in the center of everything? That's that's a difficult one.
Speaker 1 [00:05:33] Oh, it's a really difficult one. In fact, my my heart is beginning to
flutter a little bit, even talking about it. Right. Like, I mean, talking about hiring is a little
different. But we talk about. Sure. I mean, Colossians three, 17 says whatever you do and
word or indeed do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus. Right, giving thanks, right to
God, the father through him. So how do we terminate someone's employment? Right. And
do that to the glory of God in the name of Jesus. Right. So we want to talk about that this
week. And maybe you're not in leadership. Maybe you've never had to hire someone or
fire someone, maybe. But but I think some of the principles and some of the concepts and
some of the stories we're going to tell today might be able to encourage you just the way
you engage your everyday life is. Absolutely.
Speaker 2 [00:06:19] Absolutely. Because that is I mean, the really all of that, even the
hiring side of things and the firing side of things, there's a lot of emotion involved in it.
Yeah. The excitement of the hiring process, you know, even even looking for the right
person, seeing how they can interact with your company and what you're trying to
accomplish. And then, you know, that's the exciting part. But then when you have to
separate ways from somebody, whether it's a choice of your own or something else that's
going on, how do you make sure that that dignity is there and see them as human? It's not
just a problem that you have to eliminate, you know? And so we're going to talk a little bit
about that this week. Yeah, in the practical side of things. Yeah. And so Erik, let's start off
then. Let's let's start with a positive one, right? Let's start with the one that's easy to talk
about. But, but how would you see or how would you frame up some of these things when
it comes to hiring to the glory of God, if you if you will? Yeah.
Speaker 1 [00:07:18] I think this is a much easier side of the conversation to some extent,
to some extent. But I think we do want to bring out a key point. All right. I think I think one
of the issues with the marketplace, one of the reasons the marketplace gets a bad rap is

because it when it's not approached or seen through that redemptive lens. Right. It
becomes people become transactions. People become cogs in in a wheel. Right. And I
think the first thing when we talk about hiring people to the glory of God, the first thing
Jesus did or showed us was he saw people you know, he looked at the rich, young rulers
as he looked at him and he loved him. He looked at him. He saw his face. And I mean,
even if you read through the New Testament and the Epistles and really the hold of
Scripture, people who normally were just discarded, they were seen as cogs in a wheel.
Yeah. Paul or the apostles or the disciples would call them by name. They were known by
name. They were known by their faces. Right? And what Jesus taught us was how to see
people. People are not transactions. People are not cogs in your wheel. So the first thing
we need to do is we need to see humans not just for what they can do for us, but as the
image of God. And we talked about that in earlier episodes. Right, right.
Speaker 2 [00:08:41] Right, right.
Speaker 1 [00:08:42] So so do we need roles and skill sets filled? Of course we need
roles and skill sets filled. So I'm not saying just go out and hire people. You're human,
right? Yeah. Yeah, you're human. Yeah. Come work for me. Right. But but the question is,
you know, so so we don't we don't. We need skill sets and we don't. We don't hire people
just because it's charitable. Yeah, right. That's not what I'm suggesting. Right. But it's, it's
important and vital for gospel redeem people to see the image of God in other people and
not just what those people can do for them. So if you want to read. In the marketplace. I
think that's one of the first and most key things we can do and bring as Marketplace
Christians is we see humans. And so I think it might be a little easier if we if we look at this
through the lens of some stories.
Speaker 2 [00:09:36] Absolutely. Stories are always good ways of looking at.
Speaker 1 [00:09:38] Things, right? That's right.
Speaker 2 [00:09:40] I mean, Jesus saw parables all the time for a reason.
Speaker 1 [00:09:42] That's right. That's right. Well, we have an well, we have an
incredible team here at CRF. And for those of you who don't know, we have the stone
tables, our missions organization. We also have, though, a real estate company called
Community Reinvestment Foundation or CRF Affordable Housing. Now is how we we we
refer to it. And we have an incredible team here that runs apartment complexes on a day
in and day out basis. That's our core business, right? It's what it looks like. And we have
well, I shouldn't. It's like having kids, right? It's like I don't want to say I have a favorite.
Speaker 2 [00:10:17] Yeah, right. Yeah. You know. Yeah, you can't you can't say that.
Speaker 1 [00:10:20] But Kanika is is one. She's one of my favorite. Like I always say that
to, to, to and I'll tell her she's my favorite middle daughter.
Speaker 2 [00:10:28] Yeah, favorite.
Speaker 1 [00:10:29] Middle. Yeah, my favorite middle daughter. My favorite older
daughter. Yeah. So, but, but KANIKA does an incredible job running one of our largest
properties and really one of our most difficult properties just because of its size, its
location. But it is it is filled there and with a lot of Section eight housing for those who don't
know that is that is a particular kind of low income housing that is partially funded by the

government. It has tax credits. Right. But this is a large property. And when you have
Section eight housing, one of the things you deal with is tons of paperwork.
Speaker 2 [00:11:07] Oh, man.
Speaker 1 [00:11:08] So much tons of paperwork. Right. And all of this this paperwork has
to be updated all the time. Right. At least annually. But anytime there's an employment
change or a situation in the in the household, that changes. Right. So you've got income
verifications, you've got employment changes, you got tax documents, you've got
background checks, all of this stuff. Right. And and it has to be right. Or you can get in
trouble with Uncle Sam. Right. And we don't want to be in trouble with Uncle Sam, for
sure. And so we've got compliance people, you know, our staff on site that just has to do
such a great job of standing up on all of that. And years ago, years ago, Kanika had a
single mom that was on Section eight housing that lived in our community. She came in
and was updating her paperwork in the staff and Kanika both noticed every time she would
come in, like her paperwork was flawless. Mm me, it was flawless. And that is.
Speaker 2 [00:12:04] Which is not easy to do.
Speaker 1 [00:12:07] It's not easy to do, right? Like, typically, you know, I think about, you
know, even when I have to fill out paperwork, a lot of times you're like, how, how does this
work? Or is this? But it became clear very quickly that she actually understood the the
process even better than some people that were working for us. Right. And they noticed
that at one point she even she noted an error then one of the staff had made, and she was
like, hey, I think we need to I think we need to fix this year. Right?
Speaker 2 [00:12:32] Oh, my goodness.
Speaker 1 [00:12:33] And so and so, just through the passage of time, our compliance
person at the property left took a promotion and Kanika reached out to this lady and said,
Hey, would you like to come work for me? Yeah. And her response was, Why in the world
would you want me? I'm just I'm just a single mom on Section eight housing. Like, I don't I
don't fit a position or a role like this. Right. But what I love is Kanika saw she saw her for
sure. She didn't see the transaction. She didn't see the paperwork. She didn't see, you
know, the hassle that she has to go through to serve this type of a customer. Right. But
she saw this woman. Yeah, she saw her. Right. She saw the image of God in her.
Speaker 2 [00:13:22] Right. And, you know, like like we say, when you we all have dealt
with tons of paperwork, it doesn't bring out the best in us all the time. It does not. So not
only did Kanika see her, but she had to come in with a with a almost just something like
about her presence that made Kanika notice. Right, right to go, man. Not only is your your
your paperwork flawless, but there's something about you that makes me go. Hmm. I need
to take note of that.
Speaker 1 [00:13:54] Yeah.
Speaker 2 [00:13:55] And so that's amazing to see. And I love that story just because
kanika just noticing. And then, yeah, obviously when the positions filled to be able to go,
yeah, you, I assume that you have skills. I mean, we she didn't know. She just saw her
paperwork from this stamp. Right. And it said, I see you. I think there's something there.
And didn't worry about her circumstance or what was going on.

Speaker 1 [00:14:17] What other people would have looked over her, right. Where other
people would have have just said she's not interested or she's not qualified. Right. Right.
And so I love that story because Kanika saw her. She saw the image of God in her. She
saw value in her. And so I like to tell that story whenever I can, because I think it reflects
so much of that gospel redemptive reality and actually get this there. And she became a
fantastic employee and she got so good at her job that somebody came and hired her
away. And she may she makes, like, triple what we could have ever paid her right now.
Right. And so this was to me, this was redemptive. This was a redemptive hiring story.
Right. But, you know, not all all the stories are warm and fuzzy like that. But I think the key
takeaway here is, see, people see the image of God, don't see just what they can do for
you. That's important. They have that skill sets that we need right in organizations for sure.
But see the humanity, honor the image of God. And I think that is is what makes it
beautiful.
Speaker 2 [00:15:23] Yeah. Yeah. And I love that, too, just because when you when you
see people, you know, I know we're going to step into the firings up here a little bit. But
when you see people, that allows you to help them find the right place for them to. Yeah.
You know, if Kanika would have hired her and she walked in and she didn't have the skill
set, it's actually not good for Kanika to keep her around on that front. Like, let's find you the
right seat on the bus to use that analogy. Right. And so that's what's beautiful about that.
And that's what I hear you saying when you say a skill set is important. Right. Because
everybody has a skill set. Everybody has something that they can.
Speaker 1 [00:16:05] Everybody has gifts given them.
Speaker 2 [00:16:07] And so so it's finding that and helping them bring that to life.
Speaker 1 [00:16:12] Drawing it out of their way, maybe seeing it when they don't see it
themselves.
Speaker 2 [00:16:15] Yeah, for sure. Yeah, for sure. Because it's easy to go, well, they're
not doing the job right and they can't do the job. And then we just need to move on. But
when you say, Hey, there's something inside of you, you can rise to.
Speaker 1 [00:16:25] This and I'll give you even a crazier outlier story in this in this regard.
Right. Yeah. We have a we have a mutual friend who's also in the real estate management
business. But he he told me when we had lunch a couple of months ago, they actually
have a program where they're going into prisons and they are hiring maintenance and
ground staff. While they're still in prison.
Speaker 2 [00:16:48] Wow.
Speaker 1 [00:16:49] And they're looking I mean, they have a process of a program, right.
Things they're looking for. Right. But they begin working with them before they even get
out of jail. Wow. They begin speaking into their lives, calling out that humanity, that image
of God, that value. Right. And I asked him over lunch, I said, hey, does it work out like.
And he said, Not always, you know, always. Sometimes it's a hot mess. Right? So I'm not
suggesting this for everyone. Right. But but I think the point here is see people see the
image of God, call out the value that is inherent in every human being. And I think looking
beyond that transactional reality that can so easily come into the marketplace. That's I
think that's the key.

Speaker 2 [00:17:35] Takeaway well into. To piggyback off of that, I mean, humanity is
often messy, right? There's not a it's not always it doesn't always work out really. Right.
Yeah, I guess. Yeah, I.
Speaker 1 [00:17:45] Guess. I guess so. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2 [00:17:46] But it, it is messy and. And don't be afraid of that happening. Right.
You know, I think I even think of how I think in process. Sometimes it's like it has to be
perfect. There has to be that point, a point be like these things need to line up perfectly.
But often some of the most beautiful stories and some of the most redemptive stories
come in when you step into kind of some of the mess of it all. And that's what we see in
that story there. Like, it doesn't always work out, but, you know, there's some really
beautiful things that that come of it.
Speaker 1 [00:18:19] So. Well, let's pivot to the more, I guess, emotional, distressing side
of the situation.
Speaker 2 [00:18:25] This one and this one's fine. You know that's firing.
Speaker 1 [00:18:30] Yeah. How do you redemptive fully terminate someone's
employment? Yeah. How do you redemptive lead terminate someone's employment? And
I'll be honest with you, Darren, luckily, I've only had to do this, you know, really a handful of
times in my career. I'm thankful. I mean, I know some people.
Speaker 2 [00:18:46] I'm glad you're in the seat that you're in, not me.
Speaker 1 [00:18:50] Yeah, well, I understand. I understand. But, you know, a few years
ago, I had one of those gut wrenching situations. It was I'm going to avoid the specifics
here. All right. But let's just say it was it was warranted and obviously it had to happen. But
I literally lost sleep the whole weekend. I bet my my stomach was in knots. I knew on
Saturday morning that we had to do this on Monday. You know, and I'm thinking to myself,
we're an outspoken Christian organization, right? So how do I terminate this person and
still show them the love of Christ? Right. And I'll tell you, this is what I felt. The Lord spoke
to me. Spoken. That is proper grammar there. Yeah. This is what I felt. The Lord speak to
me. Right. Yeah. Grandma, wherever she's at right now.
Speaker 2 [00:19:40] Grandma, when.
Speaker 1 [00:19:40] It's all, she was smacking me in the back of the head for that one.
Now, here's what I felt. The Lord spoke to me in that moment. He said, redemptive.
Redemptive does not mean warm and fuzzy. Hmm. Redemptive does not mean avoiding
confrontation. Redemptive does not mean everybody feels good about it when it's over.
Right. Redemptive means it. This is the literal definition. The act of saving someone from
error or evil. That's what redemptive means, right? I mean, for Jesus, redemptive meant
death. Yeah. On a cross, right? Yeah. So. So redemptive doesn't mean easy. It doesn't
mean warm and fuzzy. And the Lord took me to First Corinthians chapter 13. You probably
know this many people probably know this as the Love chapter. We typically see first
Corinthians 13 read at weddings for sure. I mean, it is mostly a warm and fuzzy chapter of
scripture. And, you know, love is patient. Love is kind. It's not arrogant or rude, is not
irritable, etc.. Right. Like all the obvious stuff, the things we think of when we think of love,
but then it pivots and it says love. Love does not rejoice in wrongdoing, but rejoices in the
truth. Yeah. Does not rejoice in wrongdoing. But love. Love actually confronts people. Love

is redemptive. Love. Saving someone from error or evil. Yeah, right. Love is sometimes
hard. We've heard of tough love, you know, and all those things, right? But sometimes love
is confrontational and sometimes love is terminating someone's employment. So, you
know, I had to fire someone for stealing some time, right? Like, you can't work here
anymore, but we still see you. You are not defined by this screw up. You are still an image
bearer. There is still value in your life. Right? Love does not rejoice in wrongdoing, though.
Love is redemptive. Right? I had to fire someone for severe performance deficiencies.
Right? You can't work here anymore. But we still see the image of God and we still will
walk alongside of you. Because love does not rejoice in wrongdoing. It rejoices in the truth
that is redemptive termination, I.
Speaker 2 [00:22:04] Believe for sure. I know that that not everybody listening to this, like
you said earlier, will have to have that type of conversation. Right, whether it's a hiring one
or a firing one. But I think that overlays just in life in general that there's going to be times
that you have to have those conversations. You have to have those situations where you
have to it's I am I do not like confrontation. I run from it as much as I can. Right. But when
it comes still, finding myself doing exactly what you said in those moments of seeing the
person. Yeah. Seeing the person and and the love. What is the love of truth mean at that
point. Right. How can we how can we move forward to that. Doesn't mean that we have to
walk away from this perfectly understanding. And everybody has the warm fuzzies, like
you say. But it is the conversation that is going to it has to happen and I'm going to see
you, but we're going to move on from this. Right. And and so even if you don't have to hire
or fire somebody, you know, in your lifetime, it works and overlays every single aspect in
every relationship in your life.
Speaker 1 [00:23:12] You know, and I'll give you a again, another, I think, beautiful story
as we wrap this up here. But again, meeting with another fellow management company
owner a few years ago and we were having lunch and he said, hey, I'm just going to eat
like today. And I said, Oh, what's going on? He said, Well, we've got a huge dinner tonight.
I said, Oh, for who? He said, Well, it's a former employee who had pretty major surgery
this week, and all of us are getting together and we made food. We're taking it over to their
house. Wow. And so he begins to tell me this story. This person actually was terminated.
He had to terminate this person six months earlier. Wow. But they still loved this person.
They still cared for this person. They said, look, you can't work here anymore. Yeah, but
we see you. We see your humanity. And they were all the whole team was gathering
together to go share a meal with this person in a time of need and a time of medical
recovery. And I think, you know, again, those stories aren't always possible. I won't say. I
mean, sometimes, you know, a couple of the people I've had to terminate, they don't really
care to speak to me anymore. You know, even though it was a justified and I believe
ultimately redemptive firing. Right. Like you can't always control the horizontal response in
relationship, but when it's possible, right? Stay with the person, commit to the person, see
the person. Because even though they don't work for you anymore, even though you had
to terminate that that relationship in that way, they're still human. And Jesus would, Jesus
would call us to see them. Yeah. In the image of God.
Speaker 2 [00:24:45] Yeah. Yeah. And even if you don't, you can't control their response.
Right. Right. So it's really the response that you can control is staying in that mindset in
that, that, that ability to go, I see you, I'm with you, I'm walking with you, but I can't control
your response to whatever is said or whatever is done here. Right. And that that's really
what it boils down to. And so yeah, man, I hope that's that's an encouragement to you as
we talk a little bit of practical on the hiring and firing. I know there's probably a hundred
other stories that we could tell or that other people could tell, but we want to jump into our

missional moment for this week, because actually one of the stories that you just told
Kanika, we're talking with her this week on this missional moment.
Speaker 1 [00:25:37] Yeah. And she's going to have some really encouraging things for
you, and I think you'll realize why we love her so much.
Speaker 2 [00:25:43] Yeah, absolutely. So tune in right now for this week's Missional
Moment.
Speaker 1 [00:25:50] For this week's Missional Moment, we bring it a little bit closer to
home and talk to someone really special to me and to us here at our organization. For
those of you who don't know, we actually run a nonprofit housing company as part of our
business as mission model here in conjunction with the stone table. And my friend Kanika
Butler runs one of our biggest properties here in our real estate portfolio 420 plus units of
multifamily, low income housing and KANIKA is not only one of our valued team members.
She's also my friend. And I asked her to talk to us this week about how she brings her faith
into her work, how her faith and her belief in Jesus impacts how she runs a property on a
day in and day out basis. Let's take a look.
Speaker 3 [00:26:50] Funny thing about it is you actually have to have faith to bring the
love of God to a community. You have to lead with your faith to even to bring the love of
God. So I and my team, we try everything to lead with love. We try to lead with dignity. And
we try to lead with respect. And at the moment, over the years, I've looked up the word
faith. And one of the things that stood out to me in one of the words says, We pledge our
life to God. And when I decided to get into this business, I decided to pledge my life to this
business because somebody believed in me. They took the time out to have the faith in
me. And I understand these residents. I was a single mom. I had two kids by the time I
was 22. I was in Section eight. So somebody had to have enough faith in me to say, hey, it
won't always be like this. It will turn around. So that's how we lead this team. And I always
tell people this on our Section eight, because out of my properly, I have 200, some six and
eight in one area. So I always tell people this is not a death sentence. You're not made to
live off of the government. You're here as a stepping stone. So I use my faith and my hope
and my prayers. We're constantly pushing the residents board. It is hard to say because
you don't have a great turnaround. But so but at the same token, you want to let them
know, hey, I have a tax credit aside, I have a market sign. There's homes out there that
they're building. There's more to this life instead of just generation from generation looking
forward to getting old, six and eight. So that's how we run this community. That's how I use
my faith, my hope and my love that they want to do something better for themselves.
Speaker 1 [00:28:33] So on the podcast this week, we were talking about really seeing
people, about seeing the image of God that stamped on everyone that we encounter and
work with and those we serve through the work of our hands. We were we were talking
about seeing the value in someone and drawing it out. And I think Kanika and her team do
that so well. And she tells us really underneath it all, what the driving force is for that ability
to see the imago day and those she serves and works with.
Speaker 3 [00:29:09] And one of the things to me is empathy. So usually when I throw a
word out there, I have to really go look it up and make sure I understand the full meaning
of work. Empathy means in its ability to understand and share the feelings of that. And I
know a lot of people say, well, I don't understand, but you have the ability to understand. If
you really search your heart, you have the ability to understand what I go through and I'm
reminded and I'm trying to get a little spiritual about. There's a script in the Bible, says

Romans 12 and 15. You rejoice when other people rejoice, you weep when they weep.
And I'm also reminded about something else when Jesus in the Bible, when Mary, her
brother Lazarus, died. I love that story. She came to God weeping in mighty you. He is. He
could have stood there. And Almighty needs to say, Hey, don't worry about that. I'm going
to raise you from the dead. Don't fret. Stop crying. But what he did, he shows some
empathy. He began to weep. He became the weep in understand her concerns.
Speaker 1 [00:30:17] I asked Kanika to tell us a story, a real life story of the way these
things flesh themselves out in real life. And the story may sound familiar to you because
we talked about it earlier in the podcast, but I wanted Kanika to tell you from her own
perspective and with her own passion. Take a listen.
Speaker 3 [00:30:36] I hired a young lady that was 68 and lived on this property for ten
years. So when I became the manager here, I watched her come in and she used to go
through the paperwork. She was able to correct this and let me know she was reading
what we were giving her. So she was just not living on Section eight, but she was really
trying to make it out. She just needed an opportunity. So one day one of my workers was
moving to the corporate office and I said, I would like to interview you. Her name is Marina,
and she said, You want to? You mean? She said, I'm on Section eight. I said, But I see
more than your current situation. I see that you can be. I believe in surrounding myself with
the team that want to do what I want to do as a so I see a little more. You just need an
opportunity. So I hired her, I made her. She went from making seven bucks an hour to
making some more then. And I kept pushing her to be the best in that area to even to the
point where now she works Aquatica and she's probably on tripled her income. So I feel
like when you work in this position you have the opportunity to give back. So that's me
giving back to somebody else. I decided to reach back and pull somebody forward. And so
we do that all the time in this, you know, among our team, we're constantly reaching back
and I hired my peers to do the cleaning, but I also ask them to reach into the community.
They've hired some people on out here at the community to clean the office to help with
the hallway. So to me, they're showing the level crimes. Yeah, that's using my face that
they're going to do their best and that's also reaching back to pull them forward. So that's
to me how we put love into these residents.
Speaker 1 [00:32:29] Every day when we go to work, we have the ability to fulfill the great
commandment with the work of our hands, to honor God and love, in our case, literally our
neighbor with the work that God has given us to do. I hope Kanika story inspires you in
some way to see what you do each and every day through the lens of the gospel and the
great commandment. Because you too have the ability to honor God and love your
neighbor when the alarm clock goes off and you head to the office this week.
Speaker 2 [00:33:04] See, we told you we did not lie about kanika. We did not lie at all.
We. We love her and love what she brings not only to the team, but just in life in general.
And there's so much passion. She's a.
Speaker 1 [00:33:16] Redemptive leader.
Speaker 2 [00:33:17] Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So we hope that was an encouragement to
you today. But that is going to wrap up this episode here, Eric.
Speaker 1 [00:33:25] That's right.
Speaker 2 [00:33:25] We've done it yet again.

Speaker 1 [00:33:27] Seven down, seven down.
Speaker 2 [00:33:29] Let's keep it rocking and rolling. But yeah, why don't you why don't
you let everybody know where they can find more resources, just like this one here, the
Marketplace podcast.
Speaker 1 [00:33:41] Yeah, I and again, just thank you so much for being a part of this
with us for sure. You know, we're doing this really out of a desire to encourage the
marketplace believers because we believe the mobilization of the marketplace to help
every believer and regardless what their what their career, their job or their everyday work
looks like, to help them understand that who they are and how God made them, yeah. Is
part of God's work in the world and part of his mission in the world. And so I just hope in
some way that it's encouraged you. So if you want more information, we've got a great
resource page articles, videos. These podcasts are are archived there at the stone table
dot org. You can find out more information about us. But then also, you know, you've
mentioned the book and I don't mind promoting the book, right. Because it really is a labor
of love. Right? Like it's it's not it's not putting food on my kids table all the all the, you
know, if you go out and buy this, it really is just a an endeavor to to encourage
marketplace people in this in this realm. You can find that on Amazon, on Barnes and
wherever, wherever online books are sold. Also, the audiobook is on Audible.com. And so
we're really excited about that. But as far as the podcast is concerned, folks, I would just I
would ask if this has meant anything to you, please do me a favor. Subscribe to it.
Because again, we're trying to establish this in this first season. We're trying to establish it
as a new podcast and read it. Give us a comment as long as you're feeling, you know, nice
and chipper, you know, and really, if this has been an encouragement to you, the greatest
gift you can give us is just to share it with somebody else for sure. And so you can find that
you can go to Anchor Dot FM. Yeah, anchor dot FM. But there is where all of the different,
you know, platforms are available, Spotify, YouTube and then obviously Apple Podcasts,
which is, I'm sure where a lot of some of.
Speaker 2 [00:35:43] You are listening.
Speaker 1 [00:35:43] Yeah, that's right. So so again, the stone table dot org. We're on
social media, all of that as well. So like Ray Share and we're grateful for it.
Speaker 2 [00:35:54] And again, thanks for taking this journey with us. We we hope it's an
encouragement to you. And until then, know that this podcast, the Missional Marketplace
podcast, is all about accelerating the great commission through the marketplace. And we
hope that's an encouragement to you. We'll see you again here next week.